[Tradjazz] Louis Armstrong - Was cornet vs. trumpet

[Bruce McNichols]

  Oh man.  I'm not sure if I like this discussion group, or not.  Of course, I really do love it.  It's just that it makes me think so much.
When I first heard the Louis band, I didn't care much for it myself.  It was only when I reached my 20's that I finally heard a lot of early Louis and found that I adored him.  Since then, I've had the pleasure of hearing pretty much the complete spread of Louis's genius.  I love the Hot Fives & Sevens.  I love the material from the 30's, with those bigger bands.  I love the All-Stars.  I love Louis doing the likes of "Blueberry Hill," "Ces't Si Bon," and that stuff.

One time when Michel Bastide (cornet playing leader of the Hot Antic Jazz Band of Nimes France) was our guest on Radio OKOM, he revealed that when he was very young, his sister had touted Louis Armstrong and Michel indicated to her that "I hate Louis Armstrong."  He went on to say that he later heard a lot of Louis and found that he loved the guy.  {Michel:  I hope that I got that right}.

I've mentioned this on Radio OKOM and now I'll say it again.  I was born, and lived for 23 years, on the South Shore of Long Island (NY).  I lived no more than 20 minutes from Jones Beach (a huge state park).  For several years, Guy Lombardo produced shows at the Jones Beach Marine Theatre.  For a season or two, the Guy Lombardo Band played the show and (now get this), the Louis Armstrong Band was in the show.

They had what they called the Music Tent, where, after each evening's show, the Lombardo Band and the Louis Band each played a set.  The theatre-goers were invited to that tent.  To my embarrassment, I admit that I never once went there, to see the master.  
  On that same subject, Louis maintained his humble home in Queens, NY, throughout his lifetime.  I had heard that Louis was very accessible and that he welcomed people to simply drop by.  John Gill (banjo, drums, trombone, guitar, vocalist and bandleader), told me that there was a little light, outside Louis's front door.  If that light was on, then people were welcome to visit, at any time of night or day. I lived no more than a half-hour from there.  Did I ever visit?  NO!   Oh what a fool I was.
    A few years ago, the Louis Armstrong House & Museum opened (at that very site).  I was there, with my Radio OKOM digital recorder.  I plan to produce several radio programs, based on my recordings that day.  I interviewed many musicians (including Armstrong Band Alumnus, clarinetist Joe Muranji, popular bassist Jay Leonhart, icon Clark Terry and record producer George Avakian.  There will also be sound bites of "live" music that was presented that day. 
A piano & banjo man who worked with us in the 1960's told me a fascinating story.  In Manhattan, there was a place on Times Square, called The Metropole.  They had Dixieland music day and night.  The bands played on a long bandstand, behind the long bar.  No admission charge.  No cover charge.  Just walk in, order a beer, and enjoy continuous music of at least two bands.

This musician (Paul) told me that one time, he heard that Joe Glazer had to pull the Woody Herman band, from an engagement at the Metropole.  To appease his client, Glazer arranged to have Louis and his band, do one night there.  Paul said that he went there at 3PM and planted himself, front and center at the bar.  Hours later, when Louis came on, Paul was no more than 5 feet from the great man.  Few folks knew about this event, but I'm sure that the place was packed, as usual.   Was I there?   No.

~~~
Back to the Cornet vs. Trumpet issue. I think that the reason I prefer cornet, is because players who prefer cornet, seem to also prefer the style of playing that I like best.  
  Roy E. (below) states that when he hears Wild Bill, Bix and Hackett play, he prefers the cornet.  I submit that maybe, as with me, it's because he likes the way those guys play, and they happen to play cornet.

  Roy E. goes on to say that he doesn't particularly like Louis Armstrong.  I'm with Steve Barbone in that I am not offended at Roy's remark.   We all have our own special musical tastes and I strongly believe that THERE IS NO RIGHT AND THERE IS NO WRONG.
    I read that in the 1920's, folks called The Charleston the Devil's Music.  Young folks these days, listen to all kinds of noises that to me, may really be the Devil's music.  However, live and let live.   Today's music ain't talkin' to me, but dat's da way it goes.   
  As Steve says, Louis surely is the source of most of jazz of any type.  That's a point that we might all keep in mind, but in all fairness, that doesn't mean that we should like Louis.  As for me, I like Louis simply because I like Louis.  It's a very personal and very visceral thing.  It's emotional, not intellectual - for me anyway.
Yes, the cornet seems to have a rounder sound or a more mellow sound, but that may not be the main thing.  

Maybe the trumpet was a more with it instrument in the old days, and some guys (maybe Louis too) switched to it for that reason.  Since the trumpet seems to have a brighter sound, players may prefer what they perceive as a stronger sound.  I've heard at least one player comment that the cornet seems to be closer to him when he plays and with a trumpet he almost feels as if he's going to fall forward.
  Some say that if presented with a blindfold test, most of us would be hard-pressed to tell the difference.

  I tend to think that I can tell the difference in the sound, but on the other hand, it's likely that the player contributes heavily to the sound, no matter if it's a cornet or a trumpet.
Many folks these days play cornet rather than trumpet.  Ruby Braff did, Warren Vache Jr. does, as does Ed Polcer.  

The wonderful Jon Erik Kellso further complicates the issue.  He plays a Puje (pudgy).  As he explained it to me, it is partially a cornet and partially a trumpet (part of it is conical and part is cylindrical).  It looks pretty much as a cornet and, to my ear, sounds like one.  Sheesh!

~~~
I don't know about you folks, but I'm gonna have drink.

Lovin' the Music and Still Learning,
McN



      To: <tradjazz at list.okom.com>  
      Subject: [Tradjazz] Louis Armstrong - Was cornet vs. trumpet  
      Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 12:45:52 -0500  
      From: Steve Barbone <barbonestreet at earthlink.net>   
     
"Roy Ellis" <rellis238 at cox.net> wrote:

> Hi Everyone,
> 
> After reading all the answers to your query, I think I know the answer as to
> the difference between the cornet and a trumpet, but I must say it got a
> little hard to remember everyone's opinion.  I do know though, that when I
> hear Bix, Bobby Hackett and Wild Bill play the cornet, I much prefer it to
> the trumpet. I'm sure I am one of the few OKOMS that doesn't particularly
> like Louis Armstrong.  After saying that, I expect to be drummed out of the
> club as he is idolized by so many fans, but have mercy on me.
> 
> Roy E.

It's OK, as a fan, not to particularly like Louis Armstrong but remember
what Dizzy Gillespie said about him, circa 1970 or so at the New Port Jazz
Festival:

"If it hadn't been for Louis, there wouldn't have been none of us. I want to
thank Louis Armstrong for my livelihood."

And Ruby Braff remembered Louis Armstrong: "Whatever you play, you go to the
university of Armstrong for the rest of your life, and you never graduate."

Miles Davis also said that no matter what you play in jazz, you owe a debt
to Louis and can't help but play something he played before you.

As for me, a journeyman jazz musician, I give the man his due. As I see it,
he was the most creative and influential soloist in jazz for, at the very
least, the first half of the 20th century.

Cheers,
Steve Barbone