[Tradjazz] IMprovising - George French

[Bruce McNichols]

Don, 

Don't hold back now.  Tell us what you really think.

I've tried to not knock the guys I've worked with and perhaps that means that I'm a wimp.  On the other hand, I have never complimented anyone whom I did not care for (playing or otherwise).

You've touched on a very interesting subject.  That being how do we handle requests.  That goes for songs we know, as well as for ones we do not know.

As with most of us, I know hundreds (thousands?) of songs.  That said, for the most part, they are old (very old) tunes.  One of the oldest I do is "Hello Ma Baby" from 1898.  Then there's The Saints, Battle Hymn of the Republic and those types of tunes (probably even older).
  A new song, for me, is something like Hello Dolly  (from the 1960's).  
When I work with my Smith Street Society Jazz Band (6 or 7 pieces) we can handle most any (old song) request.  If one of us isn't sure of it, another one is.  

Much of my work is in smaller groups - trio - duo and even banjo single.  In those situations, it's more likely that we'll be stumped by a request.

I have no qualms about performing a request for a tune that I may not be nuts about.  Sure, The Saints is not one that the musicians really want to play.  I say, if the audience wants it, that's just fine with me.  I'm glad that there are such songs which people can relate to.  Same with Muskrat and those chestnuts.
  We know a wealth of obscure jazz tunes and we love to play them.  That said, even at some jazz festivals I hesitate to program all obscure tunes.   That may well be a mistake on my part.  Perhaps I should take the attitude that it's our responsibility to expose people to the old gems.

  I admit that I'm an unmitigated ham, and that I want the people to like us.  If I can do that by playing the more common old jazz tunes, then so be it.  That said, I still try to do some of those obscure tunes.   
I'd like to compare notes with other musicians, on the subject of How do we handle the situation, if we don't know a tune.   If the request is for something way out of the realm of old-time music, I usually say that I'm sorry but we don't do that tune.  If it's a tune that I think that we should know, then I usually indicate that it's a good tune and we should learn it.

Then there's the inevitable request for something like "The 2AM Blues."   That's usually one of those tunes that a Dixieland Band made up on the spot, and added to their recording.  I usually say that we don't know it (all the while being annoyed at the obscure request).  If I was smart, I'd say "Sure." and then simply play a blues.

How 'bout the request for the tune that you've just that moment, finished playing.   I wonder what reminded them of that one.  I usually say "Yes, in a few minutes," and then play it again later.

~~~
I was on a gig one time years ago, when a young lady (in her twenties) requested "The Sting."  The leader (to my amazement) snapped back "THAT SONG IS CALLED 'THE ENTERTAINER' AND WE'VE BEEN PLAYING IT FOR YEARS!"

Frankly, I was shocked.  Finally, there was a young person who liked an old-time song.  Instead of just playing the song (which we did), he scared her away.  I guess that he was just so defensive because people had recently discovered a music that he had loved all his life.   It takes all kinds.

~~~
If a band-leader is rude to an audience member, I certainly do not like it.  If a band-leader politely turns down a requester, that's fine with me (I've been there many times).  

What gets me, is when I'm playing a party and I've craftily programmed the last ten minutes of the gig.  I build to a big finish in a well thought-out sequence of material.  Then, after that mighty last tune, and my good-bye announcement mentioning the players, the client comes up and insists that we play The Saints or God Bless America or whatever.

Talk about killing the moment.  And, talk about how do you handle the situation?  Depending on my relationship with that particular client, I may explain why not or, sometimes, I may comply.

What do you do?

~~~
As for George French being a fraud, I never knew him to represent himself as a jazz performer.  In my experience with him, he was a very capable banjo/sing-along man who did his job as well as anyone else (in that genre).

That a listener shouted "You're a fraud!" to George, seems to me to be more of an indication of how not to be, than does George himself.  Somehow I suspect that there's more to it than that.  Perhaps George had previously alienated himself to the audience (and to you, over the course of many gigs).

McN


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Don Mopsick" <mophandl at landing.com>
To: <tradjazz at list.okom.com>
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Tradjazz] IMprovising


> Bruce:
> 
> I was on a lot of those jobs you hired George French to lead and play
> banjo. On more than one occasion, a listener was frustrated because
> George didn't know some very basic jazz repertoire. More than one
> listener became angry and one even shouted at George that he was a
> fraud. 
> 
> He was. 
> 
> Since I was relatively new to trad jazz at that point, I got a good idea
> of how not to be. Thanks for that.
> 
> mopo
> 
> Don Mopsick, Riverwalk Webmaster
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: tradjazz-request at list.okom.com [mailto:tradjazz-
> > request at list.okom.com]
> > Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 11:00 AM
> > To: tradjazz at list.okom.com
> > Subject: Tradjazz Digest, Vol 4, Issue 5
> > 
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> > Today's Topics:
> > 
> >    1. IMPROVISING (Bruce McNichols)
> > 
> > 
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 15:23:49 -0500
> > From: "Bruce McNichols" <muskrat at bestweb.net>
> > Subject: [Tradjazz] IMPROVISING
> > To: <tradjazz at list.okom.com>
> > Message-ID: <00ae01c7043c$fdc54020$6103b3d8 at Bruce>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> > 
> > IMPROVISING
> > When I first started paying attention to our music, on records etc., I
> > didn't analyze why I liked some bands, and some soloists, better than
> > others. Only when I started playing in improvisational situations, did
> I
> > come to understand how hard it is. Over many years, I studied the
> songs I
> > liked, and found out the chord changes (mostly by tapping the minds of
> > guys who had the ability to hear the changes).
> > 
> > I tried to form my solos, around the chords. It worked, sort of. My
> solos
> > (and ensemble playing too), were rather stilted. Just a bunch of
> notes.
> > Simply "not playing wrong notes" isn't really good enough. I had to
> > memorize the chords, for each song. I had zero ears.
> > 
> > Then came a revelation of sorts. I had always liked banjo/tuba music,
> but
> > had neither in my band. A lady friend of the owner of the scene of my
> > first steady gig, mentioned that she had an old banjo, in her attic.
> She
> > gave it to me and I went at it. Because I had a knowledge, albeit a
> small
> > knowledge, of playing guitar, I chose to use guitar-tuning on the bj.
> Joe
> > Klee was forever chiding me for that. In an "Only in the World of Joe
> > Klee" manner, Joe himself, played banjo with guitar-tuning.!
> > 
> >   A young fellow who played piano with us at that time, was one of
> those
> > perfect-pitch guys, so I tapped him for not only the chord names, but
> also
> > for the fingerings of the chords. Since he was not a guitarist, he
> figured
> > out the fingerings using his musical knowledge. That surely accounts
> for
> > why, to this day, guitarists sometimes ask me about the fingerings I
> use.
> > I guess that they've never seen such things before.
> > After playing banjo for a while, things seemed to fall into place. It
> was
> > only a matter of time before I realized a number of profound (to me)
> > things, i.e.: ** Five Foot Two and Please Don't Talk About Me have the
> > exact same changes.
> > 
> > ** The Five Foot Two bridge, is the same as the bridge on other tunes
> > (such as Mobile).
> > 
> > ** G7 usually follows a D7 (and all the rest of that circle of fifths
> > business). That led to an understanding of playing in different keys.
> The
> > relationship is all the same (remember now, before that, I didn't know
> > nuttin'). I started to be able to hear chord changes and be able to
> > predict what the next chord would be.
> > 
> > Just when I thought I had arrived, I came to realize that I had a long
> way
> > to go (and, of course, I'm still "goin'"). Little by little I became
> aware
> > of the fact that the guys who played a lot of notes, were not my
> > favorites. For a while, we used Bill Watrous (phenomenal trombonist).
> He
> > sure could play fast and high, but who needs (or wants) it in old-time
> > Jazz band?
> > 
> > Although I readily accepted that less is more, I am still striving to
> > apply that to my sop sax playing. One time, Lynne and I went to Zinno
> (a
> > jazz joint in New York City) to hear Howard Alden (guitar), Michael
> Moore
> > (bass) and Ken Peplowski (reeds). They had no sooner played 8 bars,
> when
> > Lynne said "They're not gonna play like this all night, are they?" I
> had
> > to break the news to her that they often display their technical
> > virtuosity That wouldn't concern me if they were hack players, but
> these
> > guys are among the very best players in the world!.
> > 
> > Of course, I have a helluva nerve complaining. After all, I should be
> able
> > to play half as well as those guys do.
> > 
> > ~~~~~~~~~~
> > 
> > As a sidebar, I just reminded myself of an incident that relates to
> the
> > subject of various style of Jazz. Lynne and I used to go to see Anita
> > O'Day when she performed often around NYC (in the late 1960's). I told
> ya
> > that I like many kinds of music.
> > 
> > One day, Lynne called me and said "Anita's gonna be at Two Guitars (a
> jazz
> > club on Manhattan's West Side) tonight." I countered with, yeah, but
> > you're not gonna like it. The Lee Konitz group is with her and they're
> too
> > modern for you.
> > 
> > "No no, I love them," she replied (having never heard of them). I made
> a
> > deal with her. I said we'll sit at the bar and listen and if you like
> > them, we'll get a table and stay. Sold!
> > 
> > Shortly after we walked in the door, I said "OK, let's go." She said
> "No,
> > wait, they're gonna play 'On Green Dolphin Street' and I love that
> song" I
> > had to break the news to her. "They're not gonna play 'Green Dolphin
> > Street,' they are playing 'Green Dolphin Street!'"
> > 
> > Lynne had honestly thought that the band was tuning up  - you know,
> when
> > each musician is playing something different. She said "Let's get
> outta
> > here!"
> > 
> > This is not to say that the band was bad. Indeed, they were
> established,
> > famous, accomplished musicians. It simply goes back to the old adage
> "They
> > ain't talkin' to me."
> > 
> > ~~~~~~~~~~
> > 
> > I once played for Herb Gardner, a recording of a Ricky Nelson bone
> solo,
> > on "Wabash Blues." He did a whole solo of sub-tones. I asked Herb if
> he
> > could play like that. In typical Herb fashion, his response was
> brilliant.
> > He said "It's not so much a question of 'Can' I play like that,' as it
> is
> > 'Would I choose to' play like that."  Touch?, Herb.
> > 
> >   Speaking of Herb, I feel privileged to have played alongside that
> guy,
> > for all these years. I know why he likes playing with my bands. It's
> > because I build my bands from the rhythm section, up. Although we
> don't
> > use drums very often, I'm still more likely to select "another rhythm
> > section guy," than "another horn."
> > I once lamented to Herb that I simply do not know the melodies, for
> most
> > of the tunes we play. I was referring to my ability to improvise a
> solo.
> > What Herb said was another revelation. He said "It's not so much that
> you
> > play THE melody, as it is that you play A melody - not just a bunch of
> > notes. So simple, yet so evasive. Ya gotta create a melody. That tends
> to
> > bring coherence to a solo.
> > 
> >   I read that whenever Turk Murphy introduced a new number into the
> band's
> > repertoire, he would insist that everyone learn the melody and they'd
> all
> > play it a bunch of times. That way, of course, each guy was aware of
> the
> > main structure of the tune and that was reflected in their playing.
> > So, here I am, all these years later, still trying to learn how to
> play. I
> > am very aware of my musical limitations. I could hire mediocre players
> and
> > be the best guy in the band, but that's no fun. I strive to hire the
> best
> > players I can get. That makes the band sound better, gets us more
> gigs,
> > and last but not least, gives me more pleasure.
> > 
> >   I used to love the way the late Jay Brackett played bone. He drank
> like
> > a fish, so I didn't use him all that often. I was well aware of his
> > limitations, and his good points. He understood the music, knew the
> > melodies, played good lead and good solos. He was a helluva singer
> too.
> > The musicians would often fault me for using George French on banjo
> and to
> > lead bands. "He plays the same 20 songs every night!" they would cry.
> They
> > never got it when I said "Yes, but he plays the right 20 tunes!" That
> guy
> > had a good feel, and he knew how to please the crowd.
> > 
> > I always try to do songs that the musicians like, but I pay very close
> > attention to the audience. I love the old-time pop tunes and have no
> > qualms about playing them. If the songs relate to the audience, then
> I'm
> > all the more happy. If I have to wear a striped vest and play The
> Saints,
> > so be it. I wouldn't want to have to get a real job.
> > 
> > McN
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
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