[Tradjazz] Eddie Condon - pro & con

Thu Sep 28 14:02:46 EDT 2006

Hi Bud, 

I knew that Condon had played banjo.  I even have a 78, somewhere in my collection, of him doing same.  I'm guessing that he must've tried to hide that fact, for most of his career.  

Being of the "It ain't whatcha do, it's the way thatcha do it" school, I don't care if a guy plays a banjo, or an accordion, a kazoo or bagpipes (well, maybe not bagpipes).  I care HOW it's played.

The late Marshall Brown (valve t-bone) once told me that when Bobby Hackett's horn didn't make it to a gig one time,  he, Bobby and another guy all played banjos on the job.  That must've been sumpthin'.
  Marshall, by the way, composed the tune "The Banjo's Back in Town."  When I once mentioned that title on a gig, one of the guys said "Sounds like a horror movie!"
McN

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bud Black 
  To: tradjazz at list.okom.com 
  Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 12:44 PM
  Subject: Re: [Tradjazz] Eddie Condon - pro & con

        Don't forget that Eddie Condon made his bones as a banjo player.  He only played guitar out of necessity, and then it was always a tenor (four string) guitar which is tuned like a banjo.

        Bud Black 

        -------Original Message-------

        From: Bruce McNichols
        Date: 09/28/06 12:38:34
        To: tradjazz at list.okom.com
        Subject: Re: [Tradjazz] Eddie Condon - pro & con

        My my. This discussion group is really wonderful, isn't it?  My thanks to Bill Taggart for creating it.
        When I read Bill Barnes's thoughts about Eddie Condon, I'm reminded of a few things.  One is tht I just can't warm up to Pee Wee Russell's playing.  I simply don't like those sour notes!   OK, go ahead folks.  Lambaste me for daring to say such a thing about an icon.
        I had the chance to see and hear Condon, up close, many times.  True, he was not a flashy virtuostic performer.  Maybe that's why I liked him so much.  He laid down a rhythm that beat all.  In speaking with people who had played with him, they all seemed to appreciate his playing and they mentioned how he knew all the right chords (many of us don't).  They also lauded his spot-on perfect tempi, on everything.  Except when he was half (or more) in the bag (not an unusual situation), he seemed to be the consummate musician.
        That his influence may have caused Bix to fall off the wagon, may be true, but surely not because of malice.
        His producing of concerts and hustling up gigs, should not be thought of as a negative thing.  After all these years in the biz, I've come to most admire those who can come up with gigs.  As I'm sure Bill Barnes knows, it ain't easy.

        Then there's an article I read, years ago, in Tailgate Ramblings, the publication of the Potomac River Jazz Club.  It was a review of a performance of the Preservation Hall Jazz Band.  The writer laid it on the line.  The theme of the article was The Emperor Has No Clothes.  People seem to automatically worship the Preservation Hall Band(s).  You shoulda seen the letters that that article brought in.  I've noticed that some of those bands are quite good, and others are awful.  Say what you will, but I don't think that being old and black, means that your music is good.  Conversely, young, white bands might be fabulous.  

        Years ago, John Gill (banjo) and I (sop sax & banjo) played a series of jobs at the charming Westport (CT) Country Playhouse.  We were performed before the show, and during intermission, at some Preservation Hall Jazz Band concerts.  That was one time when I really loved that band.  We met Allan Jaffe (their founder), and found him to be a dedicated and delightful fellow.  Big Jim Robinson was on bone and was wonderful.  I was most impressed at seeing, hearing and meeting, clarinetist Willie Humphrey, whom I had always admired.  He even sat in with us one night.  That was a thrill.

        ~~~
        So there I go again.  Spewing forth mixed messages.  And I'm not even a Gemini!

        McN

        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: trevor rippingale 
        To: tradjazz at list.okom.com 
        Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 4:44 PM
        Subject: Re: [Tradjazz] Eddie Condon - pro & con

        Bill, 
          What an interesting comment on Eddie. It provides another personal dimension for the historical record. I'm really fascinated by the personal involvement and direct contact that you, Bruce Mc Nichols  and some other list contributors have had with the "greats" of jazz over the years. What precious memories they must be for you.
              As you'd expect its far rarer for us Aussies to have had any direct contact with the "greats", except by attending their concerts while they toured Australia : Louis, Ellington, Basie, Krupa,  Goodman & Zoot, Shaw, Kenton, Herman, De Franco, Eddie Daniels, Dizzy, Sonny Stitt, Oscar Peterson, Joe Pass, Benny Carter, Brubeck/Desmond, Mulligan, Monk and Rouse, the MJQ, Turk Murphy, Ray Brown, are just some of those who we've had the opportunity of hearing "live" in Australia over the years, and thankfully the parade still continues.  
                  But meeting up with them outside their concert performances is rare : only very few "insider" professional musicians out here have had that opportunity. 
                  So I look forward hopefully to hearing more about list members' personal contacts with the "greats" of jazz.
                                                        Trevor Rippingale       
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: Bill Barnes 
        To: tradjazz at list.okom.com 
        Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 5:23 AM
        Subject: [Tradjazz] Eddie Condon - pro & con

        I just finished rereading "Eddie Condon's Scrapbook of Jazz" after many years and it brought to mind what I thought of him years ago.
                       Undoubtedly he was a very popular, likeable fellow, and a great organizer. He had to be, to achieve the status of the most overrated jazz musician of all time, probably more well known than Django, Bucky, George Barnes etc.. His singing was awful by any standards, and he admitted it. As a guitar player he was mediocre at best - a good four-to the- bar comper, but very limited technique.Yet he played with the best jazz musicians there were. He did this because he hired them by organizing many many jazz concerts, co owning his own club,and
          hustling gigs,publicity, and record dates.Had he not done all these things, I doubt his musical associates would have called him for many gigs.
                      I will give him credit for being perhaps the first to put together bands with with both black and white musicians, and inspiring others to do so.
                 Now let's address the myth that Bix really only wanted to play with Condon and his pure, noncommercial cohorts and he drank himself to death over his frustration with having to play with Paul Whiteman instead. Toward the end of Bix's life, Bill Challis was trying to rehabilitate him, to keep him on the wagon, and to guide him on to his composing career. He said almost every time he got Bix dryed out, Condon and friends would come by, drag him out, and get him drunk again because they liked him, of course, but they also wanted to be seen in association with the great and famous Bix, while they, at that time, were very little known.It could be charged that Condon was instrumental in bringing about the death of Bix, though that might be somewhat of a small exaggeration. The truth of the matter, according to Bill Challis, is that Bix at that time was more interested in becoming a modern composer along the lines of Ferde Grofe and George Gerschwin than jamming in an after hours club, and according to the Beiderbecke family he was proud to be in Whiteman's band as the top band in the.country and a musical challenge.
                  Condon always had a reputation for being a "pure non commercial musician" who would never stoop to playing in a mickey or funny hat band. Oh Yeah? Well check out the gig he had back in the 1930's at the Club 29 on 52 st. He played guitar and Josh Billings played wire brushes on a small suitcase. They would move up and down the bar, WEARING JOCKEY SUITS playing requests, joking around, and letting the patrons "sit in" on the brushes, to hustle tips and drinks.Times were tough of course, but still don't say Condon never stooped to perform worthless music.Incidentally, there is no mention of this gig in "Eddie Condon's Scrapbook".Years ago, there was a photo of this on the wall in the Club. It might still be there.
                 I have nothing against Mr. Condon personally. I grew up loving the music he promoted and presented and it was what first inspired me to become a trumpet player.I only met him once, as he lived in the same apt building as Mimi when I was courting her. By that time though, Eddie's mind was pretty much gone - I looked into his eyes and nothing was there. .............But I do love history and I want the record to be straight.If this includes being iconoclastic then let it be so.
                                                                Bill Barnes

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